Feminist fix: How can we expect men to pay on dates then divorce them when we earn more?

 feminism


 

The longer I’m on this planet the more I think we might all be better served if we give up our pursuits for gender equality, revert to exaggeratedly traditional gender roles and call it a day: He hunts (or runs a private equity fund, whatever), she has babies and cooks (oversees the full-time nanny, brings home prepared Whole Foods meals). Of course that would never work any more — including for me. I mean, I could never give up my career and financial independence. And I’m just not prepared to stop peeing standing up.

But ironing out the finer points of feminism seems maddeningly impossible. How, for example, do we close the wage gap when professional women simply prefer to sometimes step off the career track and focus on family? How do we teach our sons and daughters that “no means no” while, in our own personal lives, enjoy the cat-and-mouse pursuit inherent in male-female relationships? How can we relish being cared for when men to pay on dates while we aim to earn at least as much as they? And how can we insist that women’s new-found professional/political/financial success is all a boon for everyone, when we now know that it leads to more divorce and lonely women?

Last year I wrote this essay about my internal mud-wrestling match between my inner feminist and my inner femme as it applies to date-paying:

This time last year when a perfectly pleasant round of beers wrapped up with Kevin (or was his name Sean?), it seemed obvious who would pay the bill. It’s the classic little dance: The woman makes a perfunctory offer to pay, knowing full well that the man will get the check. Instead, Sean (or was his name Kevin?) casually suggested we split the tab, and that’s what we did.

And I was pissed! I mean, dude, I’m totally cuter and younger than you are, and unless I misread something, you found me to be smart and charming. So pick up the damn bill, Kevin/Sean/whatever your name was!

But I hesitate to share that thought here. After all, I fall into the ranks of educated, professional urbanite, left-leaning and moderately feminist. In other words, I make my own money and am looking for a guy who digs my mind and wit. So where do I get off expecting chivalry based on the assumption of my economic inferiority and need to be cared for? Despite plenty of logical explanations of why I should buy my own drink, I still couldn’t shake the notion that the guy pays for the first date. So I decided to find out what’s going on in the dating world—and why we pay (or don’t) the way we do.

Experts I interviewed gave all the usual explanations why my instincts were right and guys should cover the tab: custom, an evolutionary need for women to feel cared for (and men to feel powerful) and “women tend to spend more money, time and effort than men in preparing to go on the date,” as one male therapist pointed out.

I accept this typical male-female dynamic and see how it plays out in the men I am attracted to — guys who can make decisions, take the lead and are, well, masculine. I clearly am not alone, as I got an overwhelming and affirmative response to this post on the subject:

That’s the thing with the Lou’s of the world, Sarah and I agreed. We love that they take over plans for the evening, and then take over our feminist now whatbodies for the night. When you are an independent woman with lots of responsibilities, many men assume that we want to carry out that strong role all the time. But I need to feel like a woman, and the times I enjoy that most are when I am with a man. If I am being honest with myself, being a woman means – to a degree – being passive. And that requires a man who is – to a degree – the alpha.

All this gender-typical business is all good in the theater of dating where everyone plays a role — including clearly defined gender roles. But what happens when the curtain comes down and the audience goes home? What happens when my professional alpha forges ahead? What happens when when a woman earns more than a man?

I’ll tell you what: She resents his effeminate ass, he resents being emasculated, and they split. A big New York Times article this summer “Breadwinner Wives, Nervous Husbands” spelled out all the social ills that stem from women earning more than men. Just to remind you: chicks head 40 percent of households with kids, women eclipse dudes in college admissions and are making huge strides in most quantifiable measures when compared with 40 years ago. And then families fall apart if they’re ever formed at all, according to various studies cited in the story:


  • While women prefer men to be intelligent and ambitious, men have these preferences for women only to the point where women threaten to earn more than they do.

  • The divorce rate is 50 percent higher in couples where the wife earns more than the husband.

  • The share of young adults in marriages is plummeting, and researchers attribute the rise in female affluence and professional success to 25 percent of that decline.


In summary: Women want macho men to make us feel cared for while they chase us around. But then we want to take care of ourselves – and our kids, and the guy, too, if it works out that way. We want it both ways, but clearly that’s not working out so hot.

This confluence of trends means that something has to give, and that is our definition of success. It is easy to applaud feminism’s fantastic strides when we look at quantifiable measures of education, money and professional status. But all this comes at a price to our relationships, which decline in their success for every step we take towards professional success.

It is time to take a step back and start talking about what is really going on here. We can’t change biology. We can’t change our desire for alpha men. And we can’t change men’s desire to dominate. We also can’t change our need to couple up and benefit from long-term relationships and marriage. No way are women going to consciously give up the strides we’ve made, but we must start having conversations about the downsides of the upsides of feminism.

I often say that this is but a moment in the history of feminism. Ours is a fascinating time in which we are charged with sorting out all these finer but critical issues in creating true equality. Each every one of us makes in how we manage our careers, families and relationships is a tiny but important match sticks in the giant railroad of feminism. How you conduct yourself in your personal life affects me in mine — and our daughters and sons moving forward. So how do you propose we reconcile all these seemingly competing forces? I toss the conversation to you:


  • Do you feel you hold yourself back professionally for the sake of your husband’s masculinity – and therefor the success of your marriage?

  • If you are single, do you find yourself downplaying your success to potential mates?

  • Are you in a relationship in which you earn more than your male partner? Do you resent that? Does he? Be honest. For real – do you find him just as sexy as you do men who are more professionally successful than you?

  • How do we sort out this mess?


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57 thoughts on “Feminist fix: How can we expect men to pay on dates then divorce them when we earn more?

  1. As a man I’ve thought about downplaying success as much as possible to see if there is attraction beyond that… I’m not sure how well that plays given the well-known natural tendencies you described though.

    1. Dunno – I mean, why not be ourselves? The older I get the more I feel I am myself — part of which makes dating at this stage of life so wonderful, as the men I meet are also more themselves. I say: Let it all hang out!

    2. I was in a relationship with a feminist who was associate professor at a university. When she learned that they would not give me tenure in mine, she dumped me. That’s it.

  2. I think we read too much into hunter-gatherer societies and project what we assume the roles of men and women are into our modern day societies. I bet if we could, we would see that the roles of men and women are much more balanced and the weights of life are more equally shared.

    I am not married but the man I am seeing makes less money than me. It works for us because he enjoys that I can support myself and I enjoy that the rug won’t be pulled out from under me if the man in my life suddenly splits. I like being able to take care of myself and my kids because that is all I can really depend on. And that is everything. As for first dates, I like the man to pay, especially if he asks me out – subsequent dates I like to pay ever other time. You know, fairsy-squaresy.

    Men shouldn’t feel emasculated if their spouse earns more. The family benefits and he is indirectly earning this money as well through the support he provides. I am currently reading a book titled, ‘When God Was Woman.’ It describes societies before the Old Testament-Hebrew view of the world caught on. Those societies worshiped a female deity and were led in worship by female priestesses. Those societies also had women as the head of households and property was passed from mother to daughter. Women held jobs and when they went off in the morning, many times the husbands would stay home to look after the children. Radical? Our mindset about women working isn’t something new – we just need to reconnect with those that were doing this for a millenium.

    As for the bedroom, I think if you were honest, you would find that you like to conquer as much as enjoy being conquered. It is in a safe and loving environment, which is the complete opposite of truly being physically dominated where you have no choice or say in the matter. Then again, everyone has their kink.

    1. This is the most honest and well-balanced view I read so far. There is half a woman in man, and there is half a man in an woman. How much money you earn is not based on your sex, but on various factors, family, genetics, opportunities, even luck. The truth is there is no absolute or advanced feminism, men are carrying the extra weights that caused by it, same vice verse, there is no absolute male domination either, history showed women were carrying the extra weights, for the sake of society. So, sincerely, not the individuals that advanced civilization, is the family that advanced the society.

  3. @Amy you make so many interesting and good points. But why does earning more than your partner make you feel safer? I mean, sounds like you would be financially independent even if you married a billionaire? Wondering if there is a power play at hand — you feel less venerable because you have the financial upper hand?

    I hear what you’re saying about When God Was Woman – but that book is a hit because that was an anomalous and sophisticated society, not the norm in the span of history when, for the most part, men’s physical strength was valued for the survival of the whole community.

    As for sex, wow. Yes, I have to think about that more. Feeling a little shy … will report back.

  4. @Richard: Yes and no. Once upon a time when wealth was just as pre-determined as beauty, that applied. But today in the United States each of us ostensibly has the same opportunity at wealth — not so much with beauty, which always fades whether it is had at the hands of genetics, a leisurely lifestyle or plastic surgeon’s scalpel.

  5. I loved this article. I’ve felt this way forever but it’s not a popular opinion for a man to have, these days. I’m a 49 single father, my kids are old grown and (mostly) gone. I’m sitting on the sidelines of the dating scene and watching the byplay with amusement, considering myself “done with it”, partially because of this nonsense.

    My ex once asked me “what would you do if I made more than you?!” She meant it accusatory, as if I’d be upset, but I answered her quite honestly that I’d be relieved. I know men are supposed to be the breadwinner, but the pressure of the health and welfare of my entire family resting solely upon my job performance wore me down. Knowing that I was one injury/extended illness from losing everything because she refused to hold down a job because she didn’t feel she needed to eroded at my health. It was made worse by the fact that she was smarter than me, 2 advanced degrees, she just hated the job market and didn’t want to participate, and she didn’t have to because I did.

    But what if *I* didn’t want to participate? That was always a frustration of mine, and not in just my marriage. A man and a woman get married, they both have jobs, and they have a baby. The woman is always asked “Well, are you going to go back to work?” It’s an option. She can, or she doesn’t have to. Men rarely have that option.

    I get that women want choices, because they believe men have them. What women seem to miss is the fact that men rarely have choices either.

  6. “…. hold yourself back professionally for the sake of your husband’s masculinity – and therefore the success of your marriage?”

    No, I hold myself back professionally because if I want my kids to get ahead, I have to practice “concerted cultivation” as a parenting strategy. That means someone has to take them to all these enriching activities. That “someone” is the parent who is NOT working full time. I made more money than my husband but guess what. He is not as attentive a parent as our child would need and was not pleased about having to make any time concessions for either our home or our child. I would venture to say most men think this way (sorry Guys).

    See, this whole thing about men paying on dates is really about making a family. Will he support us? Or is he going to kick back, expect me to work full time, take care of the house and the kids, and drop dead of exhaustion while he just does as he likes? Too often, if a woman is working full time and there are kids, she is doing way way more than her fair share of domestic duties. A recipe for resentment. I speak from experience.

  7. If men have to approach, court, plan, drive, entertain, style,and pay for dates… what exactly do women do besides show up?

      1. Not worth it! Single father of a grear little girl. Stays with me 3-4 days every week or more at times. Mom makes more. Both career people. Every time she made more income then me, she always said I needed to earn more. Have been on a few dates. Women play the cat and mouse game. Men chase, ask out, pay for the evening. If you’re looking for sex after first date, buy time from a prostitute. No games, money for sex. No stress. Women are more successful and I was very supportive of my ex. Talking with both men and women friends, even women express that they want a ‘Man” but don’t tell women what to do. Turn on the “Alpha Male” switch when she wants it but know whwn she is expecting it. Donr be “Alpha” at the wrong time or you’re in dog house simply for being a “Man”.

      2. Whoops, doesn’t that fly in the face of the screams “we don’t owe you sex”? Yes, I absolutely agree that if I pay for dinner I have no right to automatically expect it (not expecting, just hoping, to quote the movie “Phenomenon”) but wouldn’t the corollary would be that if I don’t pick up the tab, then I have no chance?

      3. maybe, but statistically, no, you probably don’t.

        also insert bs here about how i “need” you to make me look good in the “eyes of society” or how sex is some “gift” you “give to me” and not an activity we enjoy as consenting adults <_<

  8. Good for you. You discovered the inherently hypocritical nature of feminism. Women want to switch between traditional and feminist roles like changing a pair of shoes. Whatever suits them best at the time. Personally, I hope feminists keep speaking up, because maybe it will finally push men to the point when they roar. When they do, watch out.

      1. My name is Mitch, not Rick. Nor was it Sean or Kevin (or whatever his name was). If men don’t have enough value for you to know their names, other than paying for you date, do you really wonder what the problem is here?

    1. Loving the slideshare and lonivg the words of wisdom. Very fancy indeed ;)I love quotable aphorisms I love quotations because it is a joy to find thoughts one might have, beautifully expressed with much authority by someone recognized wiser than oneself.Marlene Dietrich (1901 1992)

  9. While I like to think of feminism as being a broad spectrum with room for everyone, I’m going to call a spade a spade here: what you said in this article does not embody feminism. Your need to be outearned, outsmarted, and dominated means that you’re not really a feminist. You seem to focus mainly on the glass ceiling aspect of feminism, but what about other issues? (http://www.newstatesman.com/v-spot/2013/05/five-main-issues-facing-modern-feminism)

    It’s not only dollars. It’s about giving someone the respect they deserve. This includes a man who earns less than you or who’s less intelligent than you. They deserve your respect. Just as you deserve respect if you earn less, are less intelligent. This might mean when a guy doesn’t offer to pay, that you might need not to have a knee-jerk reaction and consider the implication, just as when you did when you decided to pursue a high-paying. Until you embrace equality when it comes to gender, you’ll be fighting only half the battle.

    1. @Slava, these are all relevant points, but there is time and place to consider. There are real social and biological factors at play that drive the sexes to certain preferences. Fact. Also fact: I don’t want to date men who are less intelligent or less professionally ambitious than I am. Most women feel that way. Granted, these issues I explore in this post could be mocked as first-world, white-people problems. But that is my world and I ask you respect them. Namaste.

    2. Oh, and in response to Salva’s 5 main points of feminism, let’s look at them:

      1. The old adage of “nothing is sexier then when a man does the dishes” has been proven a load of crap. Recent studies show that couples who have more equal sharing of household labour end up in less sexy relationships. They end up more like siblings, and less like husband and wife, and as a result, have less sex. The division of ‘traditional’ work however, keeps the marriages sexy.

      2. You have to ask yourself, if the media is so bad towards women, how is it towards men? Men are seen as either hunks of meat, or walking wallets. And since women have 85% of the spending power in the US, they have only themselves to blame. If you didn’t consume the crap media of women’s magazines, you wouldn’t have to worry about body shaming.

      3. Already talked about this one. And the whole “77 cents on the dollar” has been proven misleading. Many times. By feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers. Repeatedly. It’s a lie. Stop telling it.

      4. I am not even sure what planet they are on to claim this one. They start talking about “carers” (whatever they mean by that) and end off talking about health disparities. Let’s talk simple health disparities, but let’s use the same measuring stick. Instead of changing countries to try and illustrate a point, just use US stats. So, of the top 15 causes of death according the the CDC, men lead the pack in 13, and are tied in 1. There are two groups of people who have a lower life expectancy than a black woman: white men and black men. Men’s health initiatives like Movember are mocked for being chauvinistic, but anyone who says anything against breast cancer awareness is a misogynist. Men’s health studies account for less than 1/3rd of what women’s health studies get. Men are 80% of those who commit suicide (not attempt, as that is a completely different situation, as attempts can be cries for help OR attention, but no studies show what percentage of each they are) But somehow men are doing better than women?

      5. What about violence against men? Men are the primary victims of most forms of violence. Murder victims? Mostly men. Robbery victims? Mostly men. Now, let’s look at domestic violence. Studies from Harvard and other serious institutions have shown an interesting thing….when you look at reciprocal violence (they are hitting each other) it is EQUALLY likely that the wife will start it as the man will. But when you look at non-recipricol (one just sitting there and letting themselves be hit) it is 70% of the time the WOMAN who initiates that. Not only that, women are over twice as likely to use objects as weapons then men. But where are the domestic violence shelters for men? If you think this is bunk, talk to Erin Pizzey. She created the first women’s refuge ages ago in England. She now is VERY anti-feminist because her attempts to bring this fact forward and create men’s shelters got her targeted for threats by feminists, and her family dog killed. And look at the media, how many times do you see commercials where men are hit by women as a punchline to a joke? Would you stand for that if the genders were reversed? How many times have you seen a woman hitting a man and asked “What did he do to deserve that?” I believe feminists call that victim blaming. You just blamed the person being hit for doing something that caused them to be hit.

      As for “rape culture” that is a sick joke. You realize that the term was actually first used by men in prison referring to the fact that their being raped was normalized? And now, the rape of men is condoned or normalized. When a female adult engages in relations with a young male it was “inappropriate” but when a male adult engages in relations with a young female its “statutory rape” or “pedophilia”. When a man is raped by a woman, he’s mocked for being weak. In a Toronto Newspaper, a man sexually assaulted by three women was mocked by the reporter saying that it was “every man’s dream” to be forced by three “cougars”. If this had been gender reversed, the feces would have hit the fan for that article. A man who has sex with a woman who is drunk, but still able to make decisions, is guilty of rape, but a woman who has sex with a man who is drunk is doing him a favour. If a man regrets sex the next morning he has to deal with it. If a woman regrets it the next morning, she can file charges. And then when it actually comes to rape charges. Even just an accusation, true or not, ruins a man’s life. Relationships, careers, friends, all get destroyed. And even if he can prove his innocence, that is hanging over his head. The accusation alone turns the man into a social pariah, among both men and women, and yet some feminists have the gall to say that somehow it is “normalized” or “condoned” or “excused”. Tell that to the man who was set on fire before he even got a trial. Tell that to the scores of men lynched in the US. Oh, and most of those black men lynched, were because the white woman who had sex with him called it rape when it was found out, to save her own hide. And that trend hasn’t stopped, so please don’t quote me the “2-8% of rape accusations are false” stat, because law enforcement and other studies have shown it can be anywhere from 40-80%, especially since that crime is “guilty until proven innocent” in the eyes of society.

      The truth is, modern feminism is just another form of sexism, against men. We are not all potential rapists. We are not all deadbeat dads. We are not all misogynists. But a lot of you are misandrists.

      1. How dare you use facts to make an argument!

        Just found this page via a link from http://www.judgybitch.com . Another articulate woman who uses actual, like you know, facts. At the top of her pages, “The radical notion that women are adults.” What a concept.

        It appears that Emma and Janet (Ms. Bitch) are political Siamese twins.

    3. As a male, I’ve always had this idea that a woman would not be attracted to me unless I was rich, good looking, and or powerful. Even with women making more money, it just means that I have to make even more money to attract a woman. So I work harder, spend more hours learning and studying more skills to become as employable and professionally desirable as I can be. I work out, I dress fashionably. I feel like it is ingrained in me that I need to make more money than whoever I am with because I feel like even if the other person makes enough money to support themselves, I will be the one expected to provide for them and the rest of the family.

      That could easily be a misguided mentality, but to me it feels like it is what I am supposed to be doing. I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.

      1. Thanks for your honesty — there is a lot of pressure for you to do just what you’re doing. But are you happy? Are you attracting the kinds of women you’re interested in? I’m all about addressing the reality that women like alpha men, but not for compromising who you are. Thoughts?

        1. Very true. Very stressful for Real Men. Career, good income. I look for successful women that hold their own. Problem is that if you make $60 and they make $70, you better make more pretty soon. The women give the perception that they are better and loose interest quickly. Women tell me I’m goog looking, goid in bed, I workout, bungee jumping. “Jyst need a man to make more then the woman”. So I wised up. Don’t date anymore. Get together with friends both male and female. Females know that I friend zoned them and now no stress for anyone. Don’t have to juggle work, fatherhood and squeeze in dating. It really does feel good to not be caught up in “The Game”. I think about it at times but damn it’s so not worth it for me at this time!

          1. And I have dated women that made less then me. Not poor. Say $10-$15k less. Both income types expext the man to do all the work and pay for the privilege of apending time wirh them. Bitter? Some. I prefer to rhink of it as learning the definition of Insanity.. doing the same thing and expecting something different. The soonee we Men bexome Sane, the better we will be financially and emotionally.

  10. The problem here is that you are used to looking at things from your side of the fence. Don’t worry, we all do this, and as such, we can’t really see how things really are on the other side of the fence unless we are brought into that world. I was forced to see the women’s point of view by my mother and sister, as I was taken far away from my father before I ever knew him. It was HIS responsibility to pay to see us, even though the decision to move was not his. It was HIS responsibility to pay for us, even though he had to also pay to even see us, and not a small amount, since it was literally the other side of the country. And that also had to be approved by my mother. Needless to say, with how bitter and man hating my mother had become in the divorce, that almost never happened. Contact with him was strictly regulated too.

    But I learned very quickly what feminism was, and what it professed to be. And they aren’t even remotely the same thing. Feminism claims to be about equality, but what kind of equality? That sounds like a strange question, but when you realize that equality isn’t just yes or no, black or white, it becomes a little troubling. See, there are two main branches of equality: equality of opportunity, and equality of outcome. Feminism in it’s modern form, favours the second, which is also the most dangerous. More women are wanted in the STEM fields, but more women don’t want to go into them. More women are wanted in politics, but more women aren’t getting into politics. More women are wanted at the top of big companies, but more women aren’t working towards being CEOs. And for that, feminists want it to happen, even if it means screwing over men. Not enough women getting into science fields? Make the tests easier so more women can pass them. Not enough women in with the competitive drive to take on big business roles? Demonize young men for being competitive as it might hurt someone’s feelings. Not enough women with the aggressiveness to take on politics? Make male aggressiveness a pathological disorder, call it toxic masculinity, and put forward ways to cure it that effectively neuter men.

    As you said it yourself, men and women are different. Not just basic physical structure of bones and reproductive organs. Science has shown HOW men and women are put together, even the chemistry of our brains is different. But somehow, modern feminists want equal results of the cake despite having different ingredients. This just isn’t practical, and it isn’t even sane in my opinion.

    Equality of opportunity is giving everyone the same chance to get an education they want, the same chance to get a job they want, and letting them fail or succeed on their own merit. It is letting everyone have the same shot to get through this world, and letting them go at it without trying to micro-manage all their decisions. Sure, there needs to be safety nets in case they fail due to things beyond their control, but giving people things just because most people in their situation don’t have it isn’t helping anyone.

    But that’s not the only aspect of equality we need to look at. We all know that men and women have equal rights now, those are ingrained in the law. But what about equal responsibilities? What about equal protections under the law? Those areas aren’t equal in the slightest, and they are getting less and less equal by the day. Feminists talk about the “glass ceiling” looking up and pointing at all the powerful guys at the top (note: they got there mostly because they were rich, as there are rich women up there too) But they never look down at the scores of men working in the sewers, picking up the trash, hauling the food across the country in trucks, cleaning and up keeping the streets, building the houses, cutting down the lumber, mining the steel, and drilling for oil. All they see is the glass ceiling, and ignore the glass cellar. They ignore the 97% of workplace deaths and injuries that are men. They want equality in the boardroom, but not equality in the sewers. They want equality in the Senate, but not in the mines. What kind of equality is that?

    And then there’s the declining male population on campuses. Why is that? Because one of the things people in college do, experiment with their sexuality, has become hazardous to men. Sleep with a woman who may regret it the next day because she had a few too many, you may find yourself expelled. And sports teams, the great college sports clubs? Well, since sports teams on campus need to have as many male sports teams as female. But what if the women just don’t want to be on teams? Tough, cut the male teams till they are equal.

    You ask how do you deal with changing incomes and roles in society, and how women can adapt? Simple. First realize you are part of the problem. All the talk of modern feminism and their brand of equality has made men out to be the moustache twirling villains who are just holding women back. And their solution, hold men back. So now that you’ve held them back, and women are ahead, you are finding it awfully lonely up there by yourselves, and wondering why there are no good guys with you.

  11. Egalitarianism is the central tenant of modern liberalism and what feminism is part of. It’s out of step with evolutionary realities. That’s why it generates these conflicts. But I can’t say that without being a ‘privileged, white, hetero-normative, cis-gendered’ whatever, nevermind that it’s true. So basically couples and families have to split up, children have to be raised fatherless, the economy has to stagnate and we have to de-evolve because not doing so is sexist/racist/take your pick.

  12. the very essence and beauty of gender relationship and courtship lies in the inherent difference between the sexes given by mother nature. any cultural,physical, psychological and social difference between sexes are just civilizations attempt to revere and accomodate mother nature. by definition,feminists are just a group on which this fact is lost. equality had always been there in a way only the wise could see. women had to respect husband. but he had to put his life and limb on the line to provide for her. it was no9t her rights vs his rights, but a sacred union of sexes where the question of personal right and breach of same is transended…for all the education and career success women have today, not one will be capable of above, which is why iam certain tribal folks in godforsakenlands are leading far happier fulfilled life taking better care of thir young than a bunch of feminists today who would question the need of father for a child.children know better.just look at feminist blogs so full of gender hatred only barely disguised as practical content. educated?

  13. marriage is a plane with kids on board and husban and wife at the cockpit. there is a reason why we have a pilot and co pilot. its a better team. imagine two pilots, both on constant vigil not to loose ground and personal rights in making decision, there are in constant alert against each other as much as against the elements out there. every decision and action runs the scrutiny of did he just undermine my personal rights? its a matter of time. such marriage wont fly long and for heavens sake there are kids. but this is what feminism in marriage is, there are a certain type of men who wouldnt care less. but rest of ye, please keep out ofr serious relationships with femisits, for the sake of your unborn children if little else, they do need a father ,the do need a mother who is wise enough to appreciate there.Education and wisdom are two different things.theresa lot of education out there on the feminist view of equality, but very little wisdom on the consequence. bottomline, men have personal choice too, as to who we seek, just keep off the feminist unless divorces and constant bickering for power over little this is what turns you on.

  14. Women that would divorce a man because she makes more than he does don’t deserve equality. It’s sad so many women put a price tag on love.

  15. Both men and women need to stop thinking with their “lizard brains” so much when it comes to finances and families. The lizard brain served us well for our evolution, but now our survival and happiness are no longer tied to the roles we evolved to play. Men and women need to openly discuss and come to an agreement on how to share both the provider and nurturer roles.

  16. I asked my co worker before if he thought a female doctor would date someone who doesn’t make a ton of money and he pretty much said what I thought. Not a chance. So if I’m having a conversation with a woman and she reveals to me a high status job I say cya later. A successful woman is a nightmare for a relationship. She will be busy all the time. She will rub her success in your face and make you feel like a piece of crap. If you foolishly get married and have kids and decide to be a stay at home dad she will get jealous and resentful of you spending all the time with the kids while she works. The dad will feel like a loser. He will resent her. He has to ask her for money from her pink purse. Talk about emasculating. He is in essence the wife and she is the husband. A complete gender reversal. It is not a good idea to have a man in the role of wife. There is even reports I heard that a man in this situation has issues with erectile dysfunction. A working breadwinning wife makes a man go limp. Plus they are more likely to cheat. The divorce rates are very high with breadwinning wives. What kind of guy would want to be in this situation? Aside from a low life gold digging leech.

    Women still search for men who earn the same or higher than them. That will become harder to do in the future as more women are graduating college. Forcing women to “date down” if they can. And men for the most part don’t want to “date up”. See the problem. Men would rather date the cute waitress then a ball busting career woman who lost all her femininity.

    Feminism is also killing off mens motivation to work. Men hear it all the time that they aren’t needed. They aren’t needed as fathers or providers or anything. You take away a man’s role and don’t replace with anything else what is their motivation? That’s why you have adult men still living in their parents basements playing video games because what else do they have to do? Men no longer have expectations to do anything.

    And feminists have scared men off of marrying. Every man knows someone that has gone through the ringer of divorce and they don’t want that for themselves. And as a man it is my job to let the younger generation know how their lives can be destroyed through divorce. And they are listening. Alimony itself is a reason not to get married. There are always some people that have to learn the hard way and I have no sympathy for anyone that is an alimony slave.

    And also why buy a cow when you can get the milk for free?

    Also no sane man would date a single mother.

    It’s a complete mess that feminism has created. And the smart men are turning their backs on women and marriage and family. Despite it’s consequences. They don’t care.

  17. You are so right, Emma. Not only can’t we change biology, but our even more determining psycho-biology. Many decades ago a margarine ran a long series of ads with the theme, “It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature.” And this is what all modern gender political movements do, try to fool Mother Nature. And they can’t and they keep failing because of that lack of understanding.

    I have three daughters who learned from their father and his mother how important it is to stand up for their rights as female humans. When she was a teacher, my mother was chastised by her principal because she told the girls in her classroom that they should sign up for shop if they wanted to. And for boys, Home Ec. My mother’s mother was the first licensed woman driver in the country of Brazil.

    Two of my daughters graduated from one of the top engineering schools in the country and worked for Motorola and Dell. The other daughter got two science degrees from the universities of Colorado and Texas, not shabby schools.

    Yet, given the financial means, all three opted out of careers to be (wonderful) full time mothers. And the results of those decisions shows in my grandchildren and the amazing family lives all of them have, husbands, kids, and daughters all. I am blessed by them and my sons-in-laws. (Is that a word?)

    Emma, here’s something to think about and perhaps write about: what is euphemistically called “power exchange” in sex. The most elementary being simple bondage. I’ve never introduced a woman to bondage who didn’t love it. And here’s a fact that feminism will not abide: That the women most willing to give up their power, and are almost always also into pain, are powerful business women or are on their way to be!

    My last gf was a retired Chief Technical Officer of some of America’s biggest corporations, and man, did she love the kink and the cane. We discussed this predilection often, and as many women into this lifestyle say, it’s so nice to give up their power. It meets some deep evolutionary psychological need that is thwarted in our modern PC world.

    It’s my real world experience, my observations via the internet, and conclusions from my hobby of anthropology that either overtly or covertly, most woman want this type of sex, at least from time to time.

    Further, many studies over many years show almost half of all women surveyed admit to having “rape fantasies.” I.e., not responsible for their sexual pleasure or having socially acceptable roles to fill. Repeat, that word “admit.” Surely many wouldn’t admit so.

    The amazing success of the “Fifty Shades of Crap,” as two of my lovers have called it, is due to the permission granted to female readers to get very, very kinky. And the readers are almost all women. I found it trite, repetitive, and boring. But I’m certainly glad so many women have been made to realize that it’s not only OK to have those fantasies, but to indulge them.

    You can’t change biology, you can’t change evolutionary psychology, and despite an earlier poster’s desire, you can’t change the reptilian brain. I maintain that in order to have a successful modern feminist movement, these three things have to be recognized and honored in order to understand that what happens in the sexual and dating arenas isn’t some misogynist social construct.

    BTW, you are a very good writer!

    1. King isn’t part of my life, but it is a very, very big thing for sure — and all your points are very astute re: what women secretly (or not secretly) want in bed is telling about what we want in life. I do want to think and write more on this. Stay tuned ….

  18. As an egalitarian I say NO do not stop that pursuit. The main problem is that seeing how feminism is based on victim-hood its dead set on doing what it claims they think women are oppressed in. Which is good, as is all of equality. But the problem is that its only for women no one bothers to check when that equality is attained. And if they do its not enough and ignored. There are no brakes on this movement.

    As such any male rights is ignored at best hated at worst. So now we have growing suicide rates among males, women complaining about the lack of assertive men who want to marry and have kids and growing gendergap at schools in several countries. Kids are taught that masculinity is bad and when they show emotions they need to man-up and help the oppressed females. Any one who tries to bring this to their attention a misogynist pig.

    What the world needs not that a gender specific group quits it needs a group. Who focus on the expendable gender who are not hated by feminists. But I doubt any one bothers to care. Best prepare yourself for the downfall.

  19. Soooo…. women get more degrees than men now, and are more successful than men now, but men still out earn women and there is still a wage gap. Got it. More impossible logic from the feminism brigade.

    By the way, I’m MGTOW and not paying for anybody’s pasta tonight but my own. Enjoy the “cat-and-mouse pursuit inherent in male-female relationships”. I’d rather just procure the services of the occasional ‘mouse-for-hire’ and save myself all of the drama, expense and headache of trying to satiate the modern feminism-indoctrinated woman/creature/thing you’ve all become.

    PS – your male feminist allies are just saying that crap to get into your pants.
    Every single last one of them.

  20. I’m a guy doing very well financially, but play “poor” every time I am on dates to see if she really loves ME or my status.
    So far I am still single and had one beverage thrown in my face for agreeing to go dutch.
    Yay for equality….

      1. I had gone to the point of telling women when I grew tired of the dating game..”I’m broke!”. Worked like a charm. I stated it casually. Never a follow up date. Now lwt a Man do that to a Woman and he becomes a Jerk. Men…wake up. Learn to play the game and exhaust yourself or find better things to do with your time, money and energies.

  21. Granted, I am not a woman so I merely offer my observations on the matter. Man, woman, straight, gay, and anything in between, I believe that the person who asks the other person out should be the one to pick up the tab on the first date, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to alternate after that. As gender equality advances, and women and men both have successful, high-paying careers, the gap between gender roles diminishes. The stereotype that men should pay for everything originated from a day when women sat in the kitchen all day cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the house. That is not the world we live in today. I’m not saying a man shouldn’t still treat a woman like a woman–he should still open the door for her if that’s what she’s into–but there is a fine line between chivalry and complete financial support.

  22. Well the way that i look at it, with so much more very high maintenance women that are very independent, selfish, spoiled, and very greedy is the reason why so many of us Good men out there have been Ruined by these women today.

  23. 1 corinthians chapter 11…..let the book of life answer all our probes guys….we all important but hav different reasonz to live

  24. Feminism has destroyed the family and rendered countless children fatherless.

    Men are now avoiding marriage altogether to save themselves from a life of child support, alimony and loss of their own children.

    Men and boys now over-represent in all risk groups. And yet there are no support programs for them.

    It is a mess. b

    The only hope is that non-feminist women will step up and change the situation, but even then it would take generations.

    Every culture has its rise and fall…..we are seeing our fall. The family unit is the basis of any society, and ours has been scuttled. both by feminism and by the western governments that have supported that movement.

  25. Men are subject to sexism in the media to conform to unrealistic bodybuilding stereotypes, education system favours women with program and services and women’s only scholarships/bursaries, female only bias government/corporate laws, men have limited contraceptive options (no safe convenient male birth control pill), men’s health issues ignored to a level where they barely exist, their are no DV shelters for men, men face higher rates of homeless/poverty, men face higher rates of suicide, men face higher rates of homocide, men are assumed primary aggressor in a DV dispute and can be pipelined straight to jail even if she stabs him with a knife as long as he defended himself, divorce courtroom bias allows women to unfairly/cruelly bankrupt men, men do not have equality in parental rights, men and boys are not protected under genital autonomy legislation, men have a overall worse portrayal in the media than women, men in college face a modern grey area of acts rape accusations and are being denied due process, men’s rights forums are being denied access to colleges and universities, men’s rights venue are being censored by feminists in general and was denied a venue at amnesty international, men still suffer more rigid stereotypes/roles, men face higher prison sentences for the same crime, men face PC sexism with no consequences, men are not opted gender quotas to female dominated fields, women business owners have exclusive tax credits where men have none, men have a shorter life expectancy, men die on the job in larger more frequent numbers, men are criticized for and are being arrested for how we sit and in Sweden/Germany for how we urinate, boys represent more infant fatality, women under 30 are earning 8% more than men while men are still being demonized for a pay gap myth that is due to women’s job choices and hours worked, millennial men are punished by feminists for crimes of the past

  26. Unbelievable how educated yet unnatural therefore abnormal so many adults have become. The thrust of this article is true however, Emma cannot give up her Career of Financial Independence wherein lies the KEY to feminism AND the the lost key to natural living that for thousands of years until ~ the 60s, genders did not even think to question and yet we today ignore this natural past of people while allowing technologies destroy our family life, health, creatures, and soul. It does not take much of an IQ to figure this out yet all the articles by BOTH genders about the battle of the sexes fail to point out the cause. Even a newborn knows the Truth…when a baby is born and given to the mother the baby can smell the mother and desires her breasts for nourishment plus warmth….until the teeth…yet most mothers in the west (a declining culture) do not get this OR do, however cannot give up their quest for competing with men for Jobs to gain what? Money and materialism. This is unbelievably lacking in character and Soul. Whatever is responsible for putting us here on this planet, just has to have a plan…ALL other creatures including mammals like us adhere to nature’s laws but we, who have been given control over them are destroying them and us ALL for $$$$. People’s technologies have gotten so carried away they are taking us into an spiraling abyss of non-emotion. We can blame this on men since they have invented practically every tangible around us yet, females allowed this out-of-control chaos thinking it makes their lives so comfortable which is true. Without the high tech, females would have far fewer Jobs because most Jobs would require (like the olden days) physical strength. Is it worth it to give up one’s soul, closeness to children and spouse, for shopping, travel, eating out, Careers, non-committing males (who are exhausted with competing with the gender they never wished to, for work)…think please, it is not normal nor healthy for women to compete with men for Jobs while neglecting with dire consequences for men, children, and themselves IF they would just wake up and then tell the truth. Nature will stop this 5 decade trend in its tracks sooner than we think. Currently, Caucasians birth rate is so low that all the white ladies who have so called benefited from Employment Equity or Affirmative Action will not do so since race demographics is changing so fast.

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