This interview is a from the archives, and my admiration for Tiffany Aliche grows. We have become friends and she recently hosted me in her Live Richer Academy, which is part of her seven-figure business that has grown to include more than 300,000 women. I am constantly inspired by Aliche’s passion, business brilliance and true activism to change the world.
Man, I love Tiffany “The Budgetnista” Aliche. The financial educator was really really ticked off that the financial industry ignored people of color — especially women. She looked around and saw countless brilliant, successful doctors, lawyers, architects and MBAs — who were in debt and with little financial literacy or foundation.
In this hilarious and inspiring interview, Aliche tells me how she set out to change that.
Within a single year, Aliche recruited nearly 20,000 women of color into her Live Richer Challenge, a free program and community that helps members take control of their finances. To date, the challenge participants collectively paid off $400,000 in debt and saved $3.5 million.
Best yet? Despite her proven power, financial services companies mostly still ignored her, so Aliche found a way to take financial services completely out of the equation while growing her following. She estimates 500,000 women of color will be part of her financial empowerment revolution within the next couple of years.
Aliche and Yahoo! Finance correspondent Mandi Woodruff (upcoming Like a Mother guest!) also recently launched a podcast, on iTunes Brown Ambition, “a weekly podcast about career, business, building wealth and living in this brown skin.”
Have a listen as Aliche and I talk about her philosophy of making change in the world, and the ironing board that has changed tens of thousands of lives.
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Full interview transcript with Emma Johnson and Tiffany Aliche, The Budgetnista
Emma: I am here today with Tiffany Aliche, the Budgetnista. You always have to say the Budgetnista when you say Tiffany Aliche. That’s part of her jam. She’s a financial educator and she is the creator of the Live Richer Challenge.
Now, I have been watching Tiffany for the last couple of years when she’s been building up this Live Richer Challenge. She basically started from, what? Nothing except your own personal social media platform. Today there are nearly 20,000 women who are learning how to get a grip on their finances and thrive financially. [update, that number is now 300,000!!]
Talk to me a little bit about this group. First of all, I really want to focus on why this has become so successful. The essence of it is, it’s women, and they are primarily African American women, is this correct?
Why Live Richer Academy is focused on African American women and money
Tiffany: I would say yes. Women of color. We have women of all races, but I would probably say the biggest group are African American women, Latino women, we’ve got Asian women, so yes, basically women of color.
Emma: And a few dudes. A few dudes straggled in there, but basically, it’s women. Look at your group, I’m in your Facebook group, I’m a white woman, but it’s mostly women of color. But you don’t brand it as that. You’re an African American woman, but that is who is attracted because that’s who’s leading this group.
Tiffany: Exactly. Plus, there are not too many women of color in the financial education space. It’s like, I’m a unicorn. They’re like, oh my gosh, there goes that unicorn, let’s chase it.
Emma: Unicorns they usually want to wrestle it down and put it in captivity, but these women love you. They are celebrating you. It was not such a passive thing. You were actively starting this. It’s really a revolution, a movement that you have started because simply there is no one really addressing and marketing to African American women when it comes to financial services.
Tiffany: Correct. Prudential has an interesting study called The African American Experience Study, and they found that no matter how much you make, you are still like 20 percent less likely to be approached by a financial expert or educator or advisor if you’re African American. It doesn’t even matter if you’re a bajillionaire, the fact that you’re African American still puts you in a position where people are not willing to talk to you about money. It’s just crazy and very disheartening.
Emma: It is. What is the ramifications of that? How does that play out in the communities of color in this country?
“Lack of financial education keeps us at a certain level despite the fact that there’s great wealth in our community.”
Tiffany: What that means is that, because it’s through education that you really take yourself to the next level, so what that means is that you have professionals who are making great money, enough money to lead generational wealth, but are not because they don’t have the skill set to do so. They know how to be a doctor, they know how to be a lawyer, they went to school for that and they’re making all this money and all they were taught at home and at school was save, have a little bit of retirement, no one is teaching them how to build wealth and that next level. It keeps us at a certain level despite the fact that there’s great wealth in our community.
We have buying power of, according to a Nielsen study, over a trillion dollars, yet you’re not seeing that as far as wealth building.
Emma: Not wealthy. There’s plenty of marketing to African Americans in this country, but not in terms of building your wealth, it’s about spending it. Talk to me about your business before you launched the Live Richer Challenge. You’re a financial educator, you’re based in New Jersey, what were you doing with your career in regards to this?
Tiffany: Before I launched the Live Richer Challenge, I was teaching mostly in-person. Especially in New Jersey, I worked with organizations like the United Way. They would have me come out because before I was a financial educator I was just an educator. I was a school teacher. I would write curriculum surrounding financial education and then I would teach it at different non-profits, schools, and universities. That’s what I was primarily doing. Then I started using social media to share me in action in the classroom, then women across the nation were like, “Hey, I want to be in that classroom. I want to go there. I want to do that.” and I thought, I can’t be everywhere at once. So, I started putting together a what if I took what I was doing in the classroom and made it a virtual classroom? That’s how the challenge was born.
Emma: Right, you’re a social media entrepreneur, a digital entrepreneur. It’s really basic, you can only meet with so many people at the United Way, but you can in a sense connect with billions, billions of people globally. The sky is the limit. You have some goals that are going on right now. You have almost 20,000 people in your Facebook group that have signed up for the course. Tell us what the Live Richer Challenge is.
Tiffany: The Live Richer Challenge is an online virtual challenge. The way it works is that women go to lifericherchallenge.com they sign up and then every day for 36 days an easy financial task is sent directly to their inbox and then they do the challenge. The 2015 challenge we focused really on basically everything. We focused on mindset, budgeting, savings, debt, credit, and short-term investing. That’s what we did over 36 days. The new Live Richer Challenge, because we’re going to be doing this every single year, I launch it every January and everyone collectively as a whole who signed up in January, we all do the steps together, then I automate it after the initial challenge is done. So, the new challenge is going to focus on abundance, growing wealth and making more money, and saving.
I’m really excited. The challenge, like I said, it’s this online course that you take collectively as a group in January, or you can just take it individually throughout the year, that moves you forward daily, in a specific and easy manner.
Emma: Part of it is because I get your awesome emails that come every day, you’re like damn, there’s another thing I’ve got to do. Then part of it is then you’re welcomed into this online group. There’s 20,000 women hanging out and you have some awesome rules in that group. It is positive. Tell me what the rules are.
There are only three rules
Tiffany: We only have three rules. Rule number one is positivity only. You can’t be negative towards yourself or anyone else. Someone posted a video of a young woman who was struggling with finance, like a financial question, and guests that would tease and laugh at her, that is not allowed. I delete negative posts, negative comments, and negative commenters. Positivity only. It’s critical because personal finance is already scary. If you post something negative or judgemental someone is not going to share their experience or ask a question, so that’s one.
Two, no solicitations. You can’t come in saying, “Hey, I’ve got something to sell.” You can’t gather emails, send people to your social media pages and stuff.
Emma: This is your business, hello!
Tiffany: Exactly, but you’d be surprised. No solicitations.
Then number three is keep it financial. This is a financial group, so your questions, posts, and comments should be financial. I don’t mind a positive affirmation here and there, but ultimately this is a financial group.
Emma: I love this community. I have, in my own business, in my blog wealthysinglemommy.com the community is so critical. Especially if you are out in the world trying to make these positive changes in your life and everyone may be around you in your daily life is not so positive or is not on the same path. You have created a place for those women to find that support. That is so important. Talk to me about why that support is such an important part of your program.
“Women work best in communities”
Tiffany: I find that women work best in communities. We go to the bathroom together, right? You call your girlfriend up and being a woman, sometimes you intrinsically know that. But I thought, well, how do I really lean into that. If you’re going to do the money thing on your own, it’s a scary, dark place sometimes, but what if I created this airy, bright place where we could gather and do what we normally do best? Chat about it, talk about it, share about it, cry about it, pray about it, support about it. That is why the community is so critical, that’s why that element of positivity is so critical because that is where women work best. People share everything from going through bankruptcy, too, I left my husband, I got a house, my kid needs braces. One woman wrote yesterday, “I’m sitting in the parking lot of my bank and I’m crying. I overdrafted by $168, I have no money, I don’t know what to do.” All of these resources came flooding in. That’s the kind of group that I’ve created where a woman can post that and feel like she has no place to go, but she can come to us.
Emma: That is so special. That really is special. From knowing you, I think those sort of cases are unusual. What is usual is all of the success that your followers are having. Talk to me about what you’ve accomplished in these ten months.
Tiffany: So far, we’ve saved over $3.5 million collectively.
Emma: Oh my gosh.
Tiffany: I know. We’ve paid off more than $400,000 worth of debt. A third of them have opened brand new savings accounts that they did not have before. People are investing. I haven’t done the numbers of how many people bought homes, but I’m going to do a survey about that soon because I’m seeing all these posts about new homes. People’s credit scores have jumped. I’ve seen people’s credit scores jump like 300 points in the last 10 months. Sometimes I’m surprised at who comes to me. A friend of mine is a lawyer, I’m thinking she has it all together and she was like, “Thanks so much for that credit letter Tiffany. My credit score is doing better.” I’m like, what? I would think she would know.
Emma: Let’s talk about your own personal journey with this because you do actually have it together financially, right? You’re very vulnerable and transparent with the world about your own money and how much you save and you give, you have a great program that you adhere to. What was your personal relationship with your community when you were surrounding yourself with professional, successful, people of color who were just a mess financially. What did that say to you? Did that make you angry, was it making you disappointed? What was your experience?
Tiffany: I was not surprised because if you threw me in China and asked me, “How come you don’t speak Chinese?” I’m like, “Well, no one taught me.” You know? I wasn’t surprised that some of my friends who were super highly educated, super smart, made great money, and still had no money saved. That didn’t shock me because I knew that it’s not part of our culture. Financial education is just not part of normal talk around the table culture. Especially in African American communities.
“The bigger movement is to make money talk normal”
There’s this thing, especially if you’re a child, there’s a child’s place and money is a rude topic. Now what I’m really trying to do, the bigger movement is to make money talk normal. You can talk to somebody and say, “Yeah girl, my credit score is a 730 I noticed.” And I want it to be like you’re getting your hair done, you’re getting your nails done, you’re hanging out with your girlfriend and you’re talking about money like you talk about guys.
Emma: That’s not specific to the African American community or the women of color community. You’re in the New York area, I’m in the New York area, that’s all anyone talks about is money and how much your real estate costs and it’s very much more open I feel like in this region. Nationally, you’re right, money is a huge taboo and you don’t talk about it. I feel like we all have so much to learn from that. It’s kind of making me really angry, your success, because you single-handedly as just one woman in New Jersey have mobilized tens of thousands of women that the financial industry with literally trillions of dollars at their disposal has just completely failed to do.
“I’ve reached out to darn near every financial institution you can think of. They don’t care. “
Tiffany: That’s because they don’t care, quite honestly. To put it plainly, I’ve reached out to darn near every financial institution you can think of. They don’t care. They still don’t see women of color as viable ways to make money. They don’t see women of color as something they would invest in.
Emma: Because you are actually asking them. You are calling these places up, every single bank that you and I know that we can think of, that anyone listening to this podcast knows, you have talked to them and said, “Hey, I have these awesome women that are making lots of money collectively. We are earning trillions of dollars. Just come in here. Let us give you our money and help us manage it. We’ll pay you your stupid high fees and you can leverage against these deposits.” And they’re like, “No, thank you.”
Tiffany: Or just interest. I went to Fin-Con which is the financial blogger’s conference, and all of these financial branches there, and I spoke to literally every single one, took every single card, emailed every single one, and said, “This is what’s happening.” And this is last year, before the original challenge first launched, I think I had about 2,500 women then. They were like, lukewarm interest. I thought for sure this year, now that I have almost 20,000 they’re going to leap for joy and they’re going to definitely get on board because I can show that we’re saving this much money. Still, they’re like, “Eh.” What I learned is this, my dad has this African phrase, he’s African, it’s, “He who pays the piper, determines the tune.” What that means is, wherever you get your money from, that’s the person in control.
Just the other day, a lightbulb went off and I said, “You know what Tiffany? Forget them. These brands, they don’t care about women of color, don’t lean on them for your money.” I’m launching that’s really going to literally probably increase my income about 10 times, and the money will come directly from the people that I’m serving and by this time next year, I can conservatively say, I’m launching this new marketing movement, and by this time next year I can conservatively say I’ll have well over 100,000 women signed up. It’s something new, something I haven’t done before, and I’m working with someone to push this initiative. He’s saying way more than 100,000 but I’m just being conservative by saying 100,000.
When we get to that place of 100,000 women signed up and they’re buying products and services from me, I’m not going need these large banks. I don’t need their money anyway. Honestly, I’m already really strict with who I allow to interact with my women.
There’s going to be quite honestly, hell to pay, because you can ignore women’s color and act like we don’t matter, but when I have a force of 100,000; 300,000; 500,000 women, and we are collectively deciding where we are going to spend our money, I’m going to remember those companies that thought that we weren’t worth it.
Emma: Okay, so you have 500,000 and you’re fine, what we’re talking about right now is this Get Richer Challenge, you have 10,000 then 20,000 women in there. You’re supposed to have 30,000 by January 1, which no doubt you will. You’re looking for sponsors, you’re calling all the big banks, all the asset management companies, you’re like, “Hey, why don’t you sponsor me?” And they’re like, “No, we don’t care.” Now you’re saying you’re going to make your money elsewhere, but here’s the thing, those women, your followers, whether they’re 10,000 or half a million, they need financial firms, they just need banks to do business with. Where is that bank? Where is that bank that says, “Hello, this is just a giant pile of cash sitting there waiting for us to grab.” Who is that person you’re going to do business with? Who is that bank?
Tiffany: It’s going to be the bank that plays by our rules quite honestly. That’s what I’ve decided that a bank that decides to step up. There are already banks that I would never do business with. I’m not going to say them, but I would never, I just feel like it’s selling your soul.
Emma: Because why? Obviously, you’re not going to name them, but what did they do that put them on your blacklist?
Tiffany: First, the fees are outrageous. The role they played in the downfall of our economy, even just myself personally when I was in my 20s, I lost my house to one of these terrible crazy banks that had been sued so many times. I would never, ever, send my women there.
There are banks that I actually like and I actually use even though they have not come on board. Those would be the banks that I would suggest, but it would have to be on our terms. Like, well, that’s great that that’s your rate but honestly, I’ve got 500,000 women that want to open a savings account. Are you sure you can’t do something more? To me, my goal is to not have the women go to the industry, to have the industry come to us. That’s really my goal.
“I’m fine with having to wait and having to do more work that way because, in the end, that means the power lies within the hands of the women.”
Emma: Is there a difference in the way that women, women of color spend, save, invest, that’s different than white men or white people in America?
Tiffany: For sure. The studies show that women of color or just people of color are not investing. In the Prudential study I mentioned, the number one goal for African Americans in America is to be debt free. That’s our biggest goal. They found that the number one goal for America at large is retirement and investing. The difference is, just like I said, that’s a lack of knowledge. That’s a short-term goal, being debt free. Being debt free has nothing to do with growing wealth. That’s a mindset that has to change in our community. We’re definitely not spending money collectively in a way that’s leading towards wealth. It doesn’t mean that there’s not wealth in our community, but it’s not being used for wealth. You know?
Emma: Right. Well, I want to talk a little bit about how you’ve grown this movement, stepping over into your entrepreneurial side. I have written about digital entrepreneurship, online marketing, I myself am working in the space. I know who all these leaders are, I’ve interviewed them, I’ve profiled them, and they are all spending so much money hiring really slick web designers, hiring social media strategists, they have online ads, you name it. It’s like a very, very high end, slick operation. Frankly, the demand for that kind of investment is growing, because of the online space. Just the number of websites out there fighting for Google AdWords and all this stuff, it’s just so competitive. You just blew in there. Bootstrap doesn’t even cut it. You just did this thing on no money and didn’t even listen to all that. You could sit there like I do for days and years reading about digital marketing. You’re just like, “Whatever, I’m just going to do this.” And then you just did it.
Tiffany: You know what it is, yes, the website that I use, I use Squarespace which is $9 a month. The most money I spent was on help. In the beginning, I had a bunch of interns and then one of them I ended up hiring her to be my assistant for a few hundred bucks a month. Then, design. Even though my website was inexpensive, I paid some kid to make my logo and stuff. Ultimately this is what’s important. If you’re going to connect with people, it’s connecting with people. I think larger brands forget that. People came on to the challenge because of this. In the beginning, they came on because of me, but I was smart enough to realize that I only have a reach of so much. So, what I did was I employed, and I didn’t pay them, but I employed women around the country who believed in me and thought the challenge was a good idea. I had about a hundred of them and I said, “Tell your friends.” Then those women and I spoke on the phone every two weeks for a few months and coached them into how to get their friends to sign up. Really, that’s what these larger companies are missing. They’re doing all this slick online stuff, which is cool, but they’re missing the human element. Word of mouth is still the most powerful tool in marketing and that’s what I use.
Emma: And you go beyond. I like how you said you talk to these women on the phone. You made that connection, and then you also grew your webinar. Did you tell me that you initially were just going to have one kickoff webinar that you were doing? Because you didn’t have a fancy studio. You put your laptop on an ironing board.
Tiffany: Yep. My daughter had this Dora the Explorer lamp, and I would take the lampshade off so I could have spotlight on my face.
Emma: Studio lights.
Tiffany: It’s so funny because I’m sitting in that same chair now with my computer on my ironing board right now.
Emma: I’m getting you a desk. Go to a garage sale. I mean, ergonomics if nothing else.
Tiffany: Then I did a series of campaigns on social media. Don’t get me wrong, eventually, I’m going to start spending more money on marketing and stuff, but if you don’t have enough money for that, then you have to really be clever. How can I get people to feel?
As long as it’s neat and clean, people can overlook the fact that it’s not fancy. Instead, it was really the words that I use, it was connecting with people one on one, getting people to connect with them.
One of the smartest things that I did for the challenge was to make one of the tasks to be, get an accountability partner. What that meant was, you signed up and I kept saying, “Did you get your partner? Did you check on your partner today?” I kept reminding them for 36 days to bring someone with them. Then when they brought that person, that person was reminded for 36 days to bring another person. I was teaching people how to bring people to the challenge. That’s why I did so well. I made it really easy to share, I had these click to tweet boxes inside my blog post, because of the challenge, when you get the email to your inbox, it sends you to my blog which tells you about this task. Inside those blog posts, I would have a click to tweet, and the click to tweet would advertise the challenge for me. It would say something like, “Yay. Today I paid off my debt.” Or whatever. “#Livericherchallenge @thebudgetnista” in two seconds you would advertise to your whole twitter list every day for 36 days. Times that by 20,000 women. That’s why the challenge grew so quickly.
A very, very personal mission
Emma: But it was that hands on. Again, I see all these really brilliant social entrepreneurs, digital entrepreneurs, and they’re brilliant. I looked at them, I admired them, but I know they have assistants who have like fake Facebook accounts with their name on it that are interacting on their Facebook groups. That’s great, that works for them, but you’re down there. This is a very, very personal mission for you and you’re very hands on. The webinars, for example, you listen to your audience, they love that webinar, and you kept doing your ironing board webinar every week, right?
Tiffany: Yes, I did. The first time I did it, I was like, “Okay, it’s the day before the challenge, I want to say hi to the ladies.” I feel like 100 or 200 people would show up. At the time I had like 8,000 women signed up, and 1,500 women came live to watch me talk in my bedroom, on my ironing board.
Emma: Well, I understand. I’ve seen you speak, people can hear it in this interview. I’ve seen you speak live, and you’re so dynamic and charming. But super humble. I feel like you’re my best friend even though we don’t really know each other at all. That’s your greatest asset. You naturally connect to people.
Tiffany: Thank you.
Emma: Yeah. I’m just fascinated from the outside looking in, watching you grown this thing. You’re leveraging social media, but with a really personal touch. It’s not like, “Share this on your Facebook page and then you get a little thing.” No, you go and connect with another woman that you know that needs this service, and you physically bring her in. I mean, that is the most powerful way to grow anything. I just love watching you do it because it’s so elegant. It’s simplicity.
Tiffany: It takes time. I think that a lot of people don’t realize. For example, when you sign up for the challenge, you have to put your name, put your email, click the confirmation link, fill out the registration survey. It’s a whole task, and people are like, “Oh, you’re making it so hard.” I wanted it to be hard to sign up because I wanted people who wanted to be here. Literally, about 25,000 people have signed up for the challenge and of that 25,000 only 19,000 fully registered. People don’t get conversion rates like that. That’s my conversion rate because I have quality singing up. People who really want to be here. Not people who just click something and join it and forgot about it. It was really important to me to make sure that they were vetted from the beginning. If you’re not willing to click this link, you’re not really going to do the challenge. If you’re not willing to do the survey, you’re not really going to do the challenge. That’s why you see of 25,000 people, 19,000 of them actually did the survey, and 19,000 joined the group. That’s a huge conversion. What is that, like 90 something percent of people?
Emma: Yeah, that’s crazy.
Tiffany: Because of that personal touch. Because your sister told you to come. Your aunt told you to come. Not some random woman on social media, the Budgetnista, you might not know me, but you know your sister.
Emma: Right. Well, I interviewed for this very show, Whitney Wolfe who is the co-founder of Tinder, and I was surprised to learn that she was the marketing outreach person. You know how she launched the most digital, digital of all digital apps? She went to her alma mater, one of the schools in Dallas, TX and she went to her sorority, and she went to the sororities and she’d stand up on the table and be like, “Hey girls, why don’t you sign up for this great new app.” and they would all sign up with their cute little pictures on, and then she’d run across campus to the fraternities and be like, “Hey dudes, there’s cute chicks on here.” I mean, it was like, in-person, old-school. People often forget that we’re still humans, we still need to talk to human beings, we still need to connect with a person, Tiffany Aliche the Budgetnista. Or, see the actual cute guys on our campus in the fraternities or whatever. I love that you just naturally understood that.
Talk to me about what’s next. What’s your next big thing?
Next: Next-level financial education
Tiffany: My next big thing I’m launching, the new Live Richer Challenge will be happening January 2016. So, every January I plan to do a new challenge, with a new focus so that way we can all get on track. All these women that I know could get on track for the beginning of the new year. That’s next. Also, after that challenge is complete and I automate it, I’m going to be launching my Live Richer Academy. It’s my first paid membership site. So many of the women are like, “Hey, Tiffany, I’ve got the budgeting down thank you for that. My credit is great, my debt is down, but I want to invest. I have this new job and I want to learn how to negotiate for more money. I want to start my own business, how do I market?” So, the academy is teaching this kind of next level financial skills and it’s a paid program that you can sign up for. You pay monthly and you have access to some of these classes and some of them are taught by me, some of them I’ve hired teachers like my investment teacher, she’s the basic investment teacher at the University of Colorado. For the most part, the instructors will be women, teaching women how to take their money to the next level. I’m excited about the academy.
Emma: And this is freeing you from the shackles of the discriminating financial services industry. You don’t have to go knocking on doors for sponsors because you’ve got plenty of money coming in directly from the people who believe in you.
Tiffany: Exactly. That way, women can come in, they still get help. There are some industries, I will say, for example, Prudential gave me money the first time around. A little bit, not much to cover anything, but they gave me a little something. It’s just showed, “Okay, we believe. Let’s just see what you do with it.” I’m in talks with some other larger brands outside of the financial industry that I’m starting to see and want to get on board. A huge car manufacturing brand out of Detroit. I’m like, “Okay, sure. Here’s my kit. Let’s see.” So, that’s happening, which I’m really excited about. And I wrote, because I was before this, I was a preschool teacher, so I’ve written a book for kids because I think financial education should start as young as three years old. I’m starting to write a series of books to start off with really young kids, not necessarily about money in this concrete way, but about a way of thinking, about greed, about sharing, about donating. I have this book coming out that I’m excited about.
Emma: So awesome. I just love it. For you personally to see all the success that you’re having, but also that you’re helping other women have, in just such a short amount of time. Less than a year, really. What is that like for you personally?
Tiffany: Honestly, sometimes I forget to stop and soak it in. Every once in a while, someone will send me a message that will have me crying. Somebody might say something simple. One woman wrote me a message and said, “Tiffany, for the first time ever I paid my bills on time.” I was like, “Okay.” She’s like, “No, I don’t think you understand. I’m 40 years old and I have always been behind. I have never had enough to pay my bills on time. I don’t even know what it’s like not to be afraid of the bill collector. I’m on time, and in full.” That stopped me for a moment and was like, wow, this is a woman who for the last 25 years has never been on time and in 10 months we got her together. One woman, she was able to leave her husband who she said was abusive to her and her children and she didn’t know how to get out. She didn’t have any real money of her own, and after taking the challenge she was able to squirrel away some of her money, and as a result, she was able to leave. That really moved me. When I read stories like that or people that are buying houses, or going on vacation for the first time. One woman was like, “I’ve never been out of the country and neither has my daughter, I did the challenge, was able to save money, she graduated high school, now we’re on a plane right now to the Bahamas.” She tagged me and was like, “Thank you so much.” I was like, “Girl, bring me with you next time.”
Emma: You’re changing people’s lives.
Tiffany: Yeah, and it’s weird to say that and feel that because part of me won’t absorb it. It’s like, no, they’re changing their own lives.
Emma: It’s both. You are helping them tap into it.