First impressions: The benefits of underselling yourself in an online dating profile with pictures that make you look cross-eyed when you’re not

Yipee! My date’s not gross!  

 

Just like everyone else with a body and libido, there are male physical types I prefer over others. Yet I have found myself attracted to men of all shapes and kinds: short, spindly, tubby, flubby, weak chins and giant noses. Sexuality and adoration are rooted in the mind and spirit, and a men who are brilliant or big-hearted or hilarious — but otherwise outside of my physical ideal — have made me wild with desire over the years.

Last week I wrote about a killer first date that began before it began — and in my pre-date jitters that played out in a ridiculous scurry for a botched pedicure. I’m very happy to say that I’m still seeing that man and the more I get to know him, the more I adore him.

It got off to a killer start, in part, because he undersold himself in his profile.

Like I said, I have scary-good intuition when it comes to men’s online dating profiles (seriously – send me a link and I’ll tell you if he’s worth hiring a babysitter for an evening — or a weekend). I expected this guy to be smart and humble, warm and funny (in the weeks preceding the date we had a running joke about me dressing for the event like a pirate – it doesn’t translate here but take my word that it was clever). I could tell that he was super-smart and also successful and generally a happy and interesting person. Physically, he hit a lot of my favorites: tall, broad, dark, bearded and bespectacled.

.

But, in most of the pictures he wasn’t particularly hot. At all. Plus, he said a few times in the profile that he is overweight. I expected to meet a perfectly fine looking — if schlubby — man with an unusually amazing personality. That was plenty to send me into a preemtive tizzy.

Then, a week into our pre-date digital flirting I noticed that he added a new picture to his online dating profile (because, full disclosure: I was stalking it). This image was by far the least attractive of them all. An out-of-focus, too-close selfie in what looked like a bar during daylight hours, both of his brown eyes turned sideways.

Way, way sideways.

It was evident he had a lazy eye.

Or two.

“Hm,” I thought. “He doesn’t want any potential dates to be surprised to meet him in real life and find that he’s cross-eyed,” I thought. I more or less forgot about it and focused my attention on my swelling anticipation for the evening — and on my toenails.

Fast-forward to our first meeting. After I sprung out of the cab and into restaurant, I immediately spotted him across the room, sitting at the bar with his back to me, chatting with the bartender. Already I could see that his was not a schlubby profile. No, not at all. He was unusually tall (no online dating exaggerating for this one), with a perfectly proportioned, muscular back under his white dress shirt, his long legs casually bent under the stool in dark, straight jeans.

I couldn’t walk fast enough to meet him.

He immediately turned around and gave me a huge grin as he stood up to kiss me hello – seeming taller and trimmer as the seconds passed in slow motion. In a blur, the waitress lead us to seats in the banquet and as we faced each other to sit down my mind kind of exploded in trying to take in this remarkably handsome face. A big, natural smile shone under a trim, prematurely silver beard. And his brown eyes stared at me.

Both of them.

At the exact same time. 

It turns out that his eyes are not in the least bit lazy or crossed. And OK, look, most of us could stand to shed a few pounds. But no honest human with two synchronized, focusing eyes would describe this man as heavy.

That was two weeks and a four dates and a breakfast ago and I can’t wait to see where this goes. I wonder if my feelings around this affair wouldn’t be as glittery if it had not been launched with a jolt of exceeded expectations. Because face it: life is full of disappointment, and dating can be ripe with letdowns — particularly when it comes to online dating. I have not met a female online dater without tales of men who exaggerate their height, or male friends who say 80 percent of women they meet are far heavier than implied in their profiles. It is very, very hard to overcome the surprised disgust/disappointment/irritation you feel when someone waddles into a cafe for a first date — no matter how hard you try to focus on their other qualities.

Which begs the questions: So what? What’s the answer? Intentionally create a mediocre online profile, or have your friends undersell you to blind dates — invariably reducing your chances of getting dates in the first place? It comes down to the same rules of business — sell the shit out of yourself, then exceed their expectations. Which, of course, is highly subjective and very difficult.

Which brings me back to my awesome first date. Now, there is nothing I wrote here that I didn’t share with him. The lazy eye story sent him into fits of doubled-over laughter (he was clueless that he appeared to have amblyopia). His only defense about the lousy profile pics is that he simply does not have many photos of himself.

“The only person who takes a lot of pictures of me is my mom,” he said.

“Right,” I replied. “And she thinks you are the most handsome man in the world.”

 

 

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34 thoughts on “First impressions: The benefits of underselling yourself in an online dating profile with pictures that make you look cross-eyed when you’re not

  1. Good points, Emma, in setting the right impression in one’s online profile. I’ve been fortunate and careful, so only one time have I been surprised by someone who had not accurately represented the 60 pounds she was carrying. If they lie about the obvious, one needs
    to wonder what else they will lie about.

    Here’s a sensible single male’s perspective about how to handle your dating profile:

    1) Avoid putting a bunch of pics of you traveling the world: The Bahamas, Cabo, Paris, etc. – Seems she thinks she’s gonna impress a prospective date as being a “world traveler”. A sensible guy sees a single mommy who milked a sugar daddy – whether her ex-husband or some
    other poor soul – for trips that she couldn’t – and still can’t – afford. And he figures he’ll be expected to deliver as well. Now, if you look like Megan Fox, and you’re puttin’ out…… let’s meet for drinks.

    2) “I’m looking for a man to love my kids like his own.”: To me, this sounds like someone who will rush a fun dating experience, right to marriage. If you’re relationship gets to healthy commitment, even if he’s the best intentioned man (been there done that) AND you’re kids are truly great, loving your children “like his own” will never happen. Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t care about them, but they won’t have a “mom’s love” from him.

    3) “I can be a real bitch.” : Yay. Decent guys do so love to date the bitches.

    4) “I enjoy the finer things in life.” : An obvious gold-digger. Most likely, you will only be successful with this statement if you also look like Megan Fox. I enjoy the finer things in life, too, but we’ll be paying Dutch on dates.

    5) Avoid pics where you appear drunk: Yay. A potential addiction. Just what any great guy wants in his life.

    6) “I’m looking for my knight in shining armor.”: If you’ve read Iris Krasnow’s book “Surrender to Marriage”, you understand that one’s expectation of committed relationships need to be based in the reality, not in movies like “Cinderella” or “Frozen”. (See what I did there, Emma? Darth’s been to the library!) No man will ever measure up to knighthood over time, no matter how great they are, A sensible guys know this. AND this comment sounds like you need
    a rescuer, which is really unappealing to decent guys.

    7) The ridiculous quote “If you can’t accept me at my worst, then you don’t deserve me at my best.”: I’ve seen this too frequently. Read the answer to #3. Guys read this as a setup that we will get to see her at her “worst” a lot, and she’s warning ahead of time.

  2. Man, Darth, you are my most loyal commentor — and the most bitter one. Can some other dudes chime in here? How prevalent is gold-digging? I just don’t see it among the professional women I know.

    And yay for library trips — seems like you hit up the movie theater, too. Not many childless men have seen Frozen.

    1. i haven’t seen Frozen. I’m too “bad boy” for it. I understand it’s super popular.

      I told you I’m not bitter. Now, I’m just gonna have to keep reminding you of that fact.

      As for commenting, the dating articles are just too much fun. And I like to be “Devil’s advocate” where possible to stir up the readers.

      i don’t think I indicated – at least in this post – how prevalent gold-diggin’ is. I’ve mostly run into women sitting back perpetually while I pay for everything, but not necessarily expecting “the finer things”. To me, “finer things” says “gold-digger”. I can’t say as I’ve actually dated one.

      I recall one divorced woman’s profile who stated very clearly that she “preferred the finer things” in her profile, while I noticed that she apparently worked “part-time” as an “associate”. (Obviously not employment that generally funds “finer things”.) She was very attractive in her pics, but I didn’t show any interest due to her profile mostly due to her “tastes” as she also had a few of the “world travel” pics in her profile. A couple weeks later – assuming she probably had seen that I had viewed her profile at some point and she wasn’t getting too much interest from other guys – I get a chat session from her that we should meet. I replied that I noted her enjoyment of “finer things”, and that I had no interest in footing the bill for said “finer things” for her. She then made some comment that “finer things” wasn’t really that important to her. To which I typed, “But that’s highlighted in your profile very obviously. Are you now leading me to believe you lie in your profile?” Needless to say she wasn’t so interested in meeting after that. In retrospect, I should have played along as I’d have been curious to find out just how she bilked some fool out of so much money that she had come to enjoy the very things she could no longer afford. Silly.

  3. Yet for every gold digging woman, there is a guy who likes rescuing a down-and-out woman (and vice versa). It is not unheard of for a comfortable man to be with/marry a poorer single mom. It may be a partnership of genuine love, but he likes the idea of saving the woman and her kids. Happens every day.

    I have a good friend (much older than me) who is very successful, a very, very kind person who has a lot of assets and a high income. He is in a longterm relationship with a woman about his age who “lives at the poverty line” (in his words), has a lot of debt and is not beautiful. However, she provides him with a lot of great sex, solid companionship and a sense of manliness. Who am I to judge?

    1. BUT is he married to her? That would be my main point. Marriage puts a man or woman into a contract in which the one who brings more to the table jeopardizes themselves while the one with nothing gets more potential benefit in marriage, and in divorce.

      I have a divorced female friend, no kids, who is middle age, makes a decent living, and has a sizable 401K and home that is nearly paid off. She is dating a guy a bit older than her who has nothing set aside for retirement, rents, is twice divorced (with grown adult kids who still suck at the parental teat on a regular basis.) I suspect he’s got debts of some type. I think she’d like to remarry, but, wisely, she can’t get to revved up putting herself at great financial jeopardy to marry this proverbial “albatross about the neck” – not to mention use her financial strength to finance his grown, needy brood. (I’ve been in that position when I was a Poindexter.) She seems to want to continue dating him for his other qualities. I surely do obviously judge (unlike those who also judge but pretend that they don’t), and encourage her NOT to marry him for these reasons. However, dating a single parent issues aside, if she wants to date him cause he make her “jines” tingle and is fun to be around, that’s cool for her. He’s a likeable guy. If she comes to me considering marriage, this jackass (me) won’t keep his pie hole shut about it (as if I have anyway.) Ideally, one wouldn’t marry at all regardless. If one insists on marrying they are better to find someone in a similar financial position since marriage is essentially a financial contract.

      Marriage is about money. That’s it. A person who is going to be committed in a relationship is going to be committed without a piece of paper from the state. If they aren’t going to be committed, that piece of paper isn’t going to make any difference.

      1. Good point – he is not married to her and has confessed to me his reluctance. He has paid off her sizable debt and set up a modest small business for her so she can be self-sufficient without him. From the outside it looks rather pathetic, especially since this man’s late wife was very beautiful and professionally even more successful than he. But there is a lot of security in someone being totally dependent on you — and at certain times of life that is what people need.

        1. HE PAID OFF her sizable debt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an HUGE Poindexter. And so when this “certain time of life” for him is over, and he catches her sleepin’ around on him with one of those “bad boys” you ladies are so helplessly, drawn to like the weak flowers you are, is it OK that she tricked him? Another example of “selective feminism” if I ever saw some. If she were truly trying to be equal, when he offered to help her she would have said, “No I made this mess, and I need to dig myself out. After all, that’s what real men do.” I guess feminism is the lie and ruse we men all rightly believed.

          1. Who says she considers herself a feminist (though I suspect she prob does)? I mean, these people are in their 60s – I don’t see her sleeping around. I think she feels like she hit the jackpot – and she did. He gets something out of this. Which is to feel needed and depended on. Maybe fucked up, maybe just human. Whatever.

            1. But you are a feminist yet see how you excuse her actions? If the story were the other way, women would be livid – and rightfully so.

              Here’s two women over tea discussing when a woman is put in the same position as this older man:

              “He’s in his 60s. Hasn’t kept up with his bills, and has a questionable work history. He’s not sleeping around (that she knows of), but he must have suckered her into paying off his massive debt. AND she set him up with a business – but I suspect he just wants to “work” at his own business because he is lazy and doesn’t really want to work in the real world. He sure is taking advantage of her. She could have used that money for her kids (and should have). There is a high likelihood he’ll walk away once her money stops rolling in or she can’t work to support him anymore. Then, what is she to do? What a lazy bastard.”

              Of course, most “bad boys” are jobless, and in debt. All he’d have to do if she were paying his bills is get a couple warrants out for his arrest and she’d be the proverbial “putty in his hands.”

  4. Darth, you do come across as somewhat bitter. I think it’s important for a woman to be aware of any conscious or unconscious rescue fantasy she may have, since it can lead to unhealthy relationships. That said, isn’t there some element of rescue–at least the idea of having someone in one’s corner–even in healthy relationships? And if I might add something that could be taken as verging on snarkiness, for every gold digger on the hunt, there’s also a seemingly adult male who’s really looking for a mommy. :-)

    Back to the subject at hand. I’ve certainly had a few dates where from the instant I saw the guy, it was like a thunderclap: BOOM — no way is this guy for me. And it was instantaneous, mutual, and possibly chemical. In one case, the guy’s photo made him look like he had blond hair, which he didn’t have in real life (not that he was bald…his hair color was just not what I had expected). His photos made him seem like an athletic adventurer, while his persona in real life was more sickly academic. My lesson from this is experience is not to linger too long in the messaging stage, but to meet someone sooner rather than later. And before people shoot me down, I actually tend to prefer guys with dark hair, and I’m sure there are many people out there who are looking for the intellectual-looking type. It was more the contrast between my expectations–based on his photos–and reality that caused my reaction.

    Thanks for the fun posting, Emma!

    HHB

    1. Hey HHB – yeah, I can’t help but wonder how many of the guys who made a bad first impression were pre-emptively dismissed. I like your strategy: meet up quickly, not put too much credence in the profiles.

  5. You are correct HHB that there are certainly some guys out there that want a mommy. My parents raised me to be fiercely independent, so “looking for a mommy” is not a personality trait I understand.

    When I thought that committed relationships had some merit, I’d have to say there was some appeal to have someone “in my corner” – not necessarily that they would agree with me in that corner, but that we both understood that even in disagreeing we both might actually still be trying to act in interests of the other.

    Let me try to give an example. I remember a couple situations where my father and one of my sisters were really getting into heated whirlwind yelling matches during those delightful teenage years. Both my dad and sister would really get screaming in each other’s faces, usually for a transgression in which my sisters were guilty. (My brother and I would almost pop some Jiffy Pop, and get a front row seat to the “show” whenever we could. Yay!!) When things got really intense, my mom would intervene and chew out BOTH my dad and my sister to get them separated. She was trying to protect both her kids and her husband from things getting out of control. Typically my dad would calm down; he’d still be really pissed, but he’d calm down. (My sister(s) would stomp upstairs to her room.) My dad was very ill during my teenage years, and these routs really threatened his health. He knew he was at risk. He knew my mom was also watching out for him, even though he may also have been mad at Mom for intervening. Was that really rescuing? My dad was capable of continuing the heated match with my sister(s), or even telling my mom off (although I can’t say I ever saw him do so) -albeit it might have ended in a heart attack. My mom certainly had the gumption to intervene, or let either kid or Dad have it. I think Dad trusted Mom, even when he may not have loved the outcome in that moment at some level he saw she wasn’t acting to undermine or disrespect him, or excuse my sister. He knew Mom was in his corner. I don’t see that in many relationships today.

    I don’t know that I quite see “being in someone’s corner as “rescuing”, rather it would seem more a “team”. I see rescuing more as someone who is helpless sitting back while significant other is continually solving the problems, fixing whatever has gone wrong, etc. Usually the rescuer is contributing too much to the relationship, and the “rescue-ee” contributes nothing. I’m not talking about those periodic situations where a GF gets a flat tire, and her BF comes by the roadway to change. Ideally, at some points she returns those favors. I see rescuing as a continual trend in the relationship.

  6. I wholeheartedly agree with your concept and idea of “being in one’s corner” vs “rescuing”.
    Being supportive and understanding, and in your particular story about dad and sister’s yelling matches and mom intervening – I understand how sometimes in the heat of the moment when we are so enveloped by emotions – we sometimes cannot stop by ourselves – especially if the other person is in that same heated-passion moment and unable (teenagers) to stop as well.
    I think your mom wasn’t rescuing – she was helping.
    Now, I am sure some people would think that she was rescuing – and I would say – depends on how often this would happen and if everyone – dad/kids – knew they could get away with that/it – and that they knew that they didn’t have to be responsible for them stopping – because mom would ALWAYS stop the fight.
    But, it doesn’t sound like that was the case.
    It sounds like it happened just a few times (hopefully, I am making huge assumptive leaps here) :)
    and I think in those moments – anyone would love help and support.

    And … on a separate note – there is always a pre-nuptial agreement, if you ever come to that decision, it maybe something to make you feel more comfortable and more protected. ;)

  7. To speak on the actual topic …
    When I went on my first date – he later told me that my online profile pictures did not give me justice (?) I don’t remember the actual saying.

    But – I am not photogenic – and considering that most women have terrible self-body image – I don’t get how those of us who maybe are a bit overweight can and DO list themselves as thin and skinny. I know I didn’t. The site that we met on – had several options – curvy and a few extra pounds etc available for picking. I think that was really good option.

    But, I am glad that I was able to exceed his expectations on our first date – because I think that made for more of a pleasant experience/date. And I myself don’t pay attention to physical characteristics at all, unless the guy obviously comes off as a duche (sp). I shouldn’t say that – actually I discriminate against ANY and ALL male profiles that have a half-naked-selfie in them.
    It’s an automatic turn off – NEXT!!! – for me.

    Emma, I am glad your date turned out fabulously and you really like him. I am so super happy for you and will be smiling along with you – going on the fabulous dating experiences along with you. :)

    Best of luck and I hope it goes great and lasts a while. :)

  8. GG, no the blowups were not common. And both my sisters were unruly teens a times, and would push and push until my parents had enough. Often my Dad had stepped into an argument where my sisters were being disrespectful to my mom. Sis would escalate it, Dad would step in, and Sis would take it another notch, and Dad would not let them outdo his authority. My sister’s deserved what they got, and are fine women today because my parents didn’t put up with baloney, but mostly my Dad. Mom wasn’t trying to protect my sisters from punishment, nor undermine my father (which I see many parents do to one another involving family concerns, finances, child discipline, etc.) She was trying to protect Dad’s wellbeing, defuse the rage from sisters and Dad, and also stand by her spouse. He’d just be pissed at the whole situation, but generally she got him calmer.

    Prenups are great in theory, but unless very rock solid, any divorce I’ve seen, usually the wife, will challenge it to take whatever money she can get – if nothing else but for revenge because her husband simply failed to make princess “happy” (not because of an affair which might justify some revenge). Take a look at the documentary Divorcecorp to see why a lawyer would work with the spouse to break down a prenup. I suspect as women begin to make even more money (which I don’t think is a bad thing, so they can pay some of my bills for a change), prenups will become more the norm and not contestable. Divorce laws do not favor men, but when women are at risk of losing more financially they will get the courts to change what men simply get laughed at for wanting changed. Marriage is a financial folly for both men and women, but right now it’s usually much, much more a folly for men.

    Women equate “marriage” as “love”. If a man says, I don’t want to marry you because of the financial and legal implications if you decide to walk (since 70 to 90% of wives initiate divorce, it is a justifiable fear on men’s part.), women immediately are “broken hearted”….or are they simply pissed they won’t have a way to take what he’s earned. I’ve seen the latter too many times. Two people can live together, squeeze out kiddos etc. and love one another without a contract.

  9. Not all women are like that – like what you describe Darth.
    But, if this is what you want to think of most women out there – someone after your money, someone who wants to be taken care of financially – then by all means. I just have one question for you.

    And how is that working for you? (as in your belief)

    Best of luck.

    1. I do see that most women are as I describe, and other men’s comments have likewise reflected these thoughts. I think I’ve mentioned that there are a few women who are decent. I know a couple, but most women are as I describe.

      There may be several women who read these blogs who are probably intelligent, decent and great, and in that I include Emma. In my experience, and I’ve dated a lot of single moms, many women feel entitled, most women are as untrustworthy as the men they think are so rotten, and “love” and “commitment” are laughable jokes in this day and age (women are more at fault for that then men as they initiate most divorces.)

      As Emma’s other blogs point out, if a guy is decent, kind, and commitment oriented these days, he is a target to be taken advantage of for some free meals and drinks (and no sex), and if he’s the biggest asshole in the universe a woman will get dripping wet and spread her legs for nary a dime spent on her. And then women wonder where all the decent guys have gone. Boo-hoo.

      To be fair, I think marriage is a bad deal for all women as well, but I think it’s, most often, a way worse deal for men. That may change as women continue to earn more, then face divorce.

      Currently, I know two guys living with single moms who started living with them to help them out financially. When the guys realized the relationships were not working, and expressed such to the woman they wanted them to move out (neither mommy is on the lease), the women bruised themselves and threatened to call the cops to get a false domestic charges on the guys. One of the went to the police to find out what he could do, and the cops said, “Wait until your lease is up and then simply move away and leave her. That’s it.” Gotta love how the law enables women to file false police reports to maintain the finances the man is providing…..That’s the true face of feminism.

      In another response, I detailed how an acquaintance is going through another rotten experience with an entitled single mom he’s been dating who brings nothing financially to the table, yet has the gall to tell him she’s “concerned he won’t meet her financial needs”, then wants him to put her on his life insurance “to take care of her in case something happens to him.” They aren’t married. In his case he moved her out of his house, because he son was stealing. And now she lives with her own mother, and isn’t paying bills there.

      And the list of men I’ve known who were childless, yet took on a single mom and her kids with the best intentions, only to have her quit her job, sit on her arse at home, and let him pay all the bills…even long after the stepkids were adults. These men have little in retirement because they’ve paid for these kids who aren’t their own to show they loved her, and all they got continually was last place, no money, no sex, and a woman and her brood mooching off them.

      I’ll die just as “alone” as many of the married guys I know who are married to mooches and their rotten kids, all of whom who will simply be circling the hospital bed to hear the reading of the will. I have tons of friends to fill any social needs without having to risk having a boat anchor calling the cops as a little “surprise” in our relationship because she is pissed at me. My wallet is way more full than those of any guy I know in a relationship or divorced, except perhaps for one or two guys who actually did find a decent woman to marry. Yep, things are working out for me just fine.

      1. Darth – thanks for the kind words (hug!).

        Here is what I say: What is the common denominator in these effed up scenarios? Is it that the women are single moms? Or is that this is you and your circle of friends. I don’t doubt anything you write – but I simply don’t see this going on in my circles. There are no coincidences in who we attract into our lives. Seems you keep attracting the same kind of mooching, unappreciative woman time and again.

        1. Entitled women is the common denominator. Them being single moms is just the “bonus”, so that the entitlement to these men’s wallets is expanded to the children who aren’t his. These women weren’t single moms at some point in the past, but they likely felt just as entitled. In my dating experiences 80% of women, if not more, feel this entitlement; there is the rare gem who does not. So much for feminism learnin’ women to earn money on their own.

          It’s going on in your circles, but you’re not paying attention. That expensive new purse your female friend bought was likely bought because she only pays a small portion of the bills – if any at all – because her husband pays it all. That single mom acquaintance who found her a childless Poindexter to marry is getting that larger house paid for “because the kids need space” (not his kids), and bought that nice SUV “to haul the kids” (Again, not Poindy’s kids) because his wallet is being raided for it. That $6,000 dollar diamond that former sorority sister got on her engagement – ya know, that one she sold and kept all the money from since she was one of those 90% of educated wives that file for divorce – was paid for by that guy who thought she loved him.

          One of my ex, single mom girlfriends – whom I thought I might actually consider marrying – was appalled at the idea that I was not interested in paying for her two young kids to go to college. I wouldn’t have been against working with her to put some money aside to help when there was extra cash available, or throwing some money at them for books here and there if they proved themselves responsible college students. I was not going to jeopardize retirement savings and paying bills to make sure the kids would have the “DarthW Scholarship Fund” to fully pay for school. She was so pissed at me. “But they aren’t MY kids.” To her, the only way I could love she and her kids was to spend all my earnings on them. Interestingly, her deadbeat ex-husband didn’t provide any cash for his kids, but somehow I was expected to do so. (What she didn’t realize is I wouldn’t pay my own kids way through college – if I’d had any. I worked my way through college and paid for it on my own. It was good enough for me it would be good enough for any kid whom I was paying bills.)

          I’m a well-educated, over-confident kinda guy. I make an excellent salary, am not given to addictions of any type, and love animals. These women that I, and my professional guy friends and acquaintances date are mostly single moms, because at our age that’s mostly what’s there; Sometimes they aren’t single moms. These aren’t the single moms you’ll see on daytime shows like “Maury” as many of these women are often employed and educated as well, probably decent moms, not necessarily horrible women. Except the large majority of them feel entitled to the money of whomever they are dating.

          1. I don’t know, Darth. I recently had a client who became a friend and he is very, very successful and dates a lot. He was telling me about a female (gorgeous, Eastern European) friend who went out with this VC dude. “On the very first date he took her to his place on the beach and gave her $30,000 worth of Louis Vuitton purses. What woman wouldn’t love that!?”

            And my response was: “No one I know!” I hang out with people like me: educated women who are ambitious and for the most part do well for themselves financially. Some of my friends are teachers and work in health care, but mostly I’d say upper middle class and up. Seriously, no one I know would be into that (for one – ostentatious handbags are considered tacky in my circle). Second, I mean – that is fucked up. I’m trying to think of an equivalent for me — let’s say on a first date some guy bought me a really killer antique. I mean, how embarrassing would that be (no matter how much I liked him)? What does one say? What is then expected of me? WHAT THE EFFFFFF?

    2. Darth likes to go out with women and get laid. And he does. I just suspect that on a deeper level that is frustrating. Which he releases here on these boards. (which I welcome)

      1. I’m not frustrated by my dating and relationship success, or failure. Disappointed some in the past. Now, just realistic.

        It would take so long to explain. I should write my own blog, but who has the time when your site provides my stage, Emma. :)

        1. Keep it coming!

          I actually thought it would be a fantastic stunt for you and I to go on a date and we both write about it (you could post here, unedited). But I’m dating someone now so that won’t work. Blerg.

          1. You’d probably find me likeable. I’d find you likeable as well.

            We’d laugh. I’d ask a lot about how you’ve found yourself where you are, and be interested in it. We’d probably realize we both agree on a lot of things, and disagree on a lot of things.

            You’d probably get to see parts of the “nice guy” persona peek through my geeky self, but I’d say “fuck” and “shit” a lot to present myself otherwise. We’d go dutch though, although I’d struggle with wanting to pay on the first date, and because you’re a single mom and I’d rather you use your money for your kids…..the accursed nice guy is always trying to escape my brain. “Fuck. Shit. Fuck”

            1. Clearly you are not in NY, because everyone here swears all the time so if you found yourself faking a tough-guy act I’d sniff that shit out stat. Likewise, I’m sure I’d sense you misogyny and bitterness from the get-go (I’m intuitive like that). That’s not to say that it wouldn’t be a lovely date that couldn’t end in a fun nightcap — save for one detail: Dutch? Sand in the vag. Buh-bye.

            2. True. I’m in the MidWest where classy abounds, so foul language is an easy ruse of the bad boy.

              Just because I think marriage is a horrible thing in this day and age, see most women as having their hands in men’s wallets (far from representing feminism), and don’t see the benefit in a man marrying a single mom, does not equate to “misogyny”. That’s an illogical leap.

              I date women (not dutch unfortunately, but I keep it inexpensive). I have several good female friends. I have sisters I respect. I’m perfectly cool with women working side by side with me for the same pay at the same job with the same responsibilities as I. There are even a couple buddies (out of dozens) who seem to be married to decent wives (acknowledging the odds are against most men in the millions-to-one range however). I am far from misogynist, so given a fair opportunity you wouldn’t “sense” it on me at all.

            3. You contend that most women are gold diggers and you have no interest in a serious relationship with a woman.

              I get that you find marriage a bad idea – got it, you reject the political/religious/cultural constructs of marriage. But you refuse to have a serious romantic relationship with a woman – totally different issue. That is rejecting an entire gender on the basis of a few experiences. What if I said: “Eskimos are great. Some of my best friends are Eskimos! But I would never hire an Eskimo because all the ones I’ve ever met — or the ones my friends ever met — smelled like mackerel.” Bigotry 101, dude.

            4. Nice try Emma but not true. I’ve stated what I see as true for “most” women, with an emphasis on single moms. Multiple times I have mentioned there are exceptions.

              I have several female friends. A couple are like sisters to me. My close female friends are, for the most part, pretty independent as women as that is a trait I admire and prefer to be around (two are actually single moms; one of whom is remarried.) A misogynist believes women have no value. I do think women can have value, and see value in the female friends that I have.

              I don’t see any value in romance or a committed relationship. I do think most women, when given the choice, will sit back and take from a man. However, there are exceptions I see in my own life….just too few.

          2. Oh, and hopefully on our first date I’d find you to be a “sugar mama” ala your male friend who gave his date $30K in purses. Only, in my case I’d just need you to cover the $8,000 stone retaining wall and $4,000 driveway replacement I’m having replaced at my house this week….and maybe a little extra cash to get me through a wild Labor Day weekend at the lake.

            1. And my point that a woman is always looking to get into a man’s “wallet”. LOL. Of course, we’ll conveniently ignore my own dipping into a potential sugar mama’s wallet.

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